Pulse Counter vs Production Counter Question (Gas Meter)

Hey Team NCD,

I have a question about the main difference between two sensors you sell, and why one wouldn’t work on a natural gas meter we tried hooking up to:

  1. IoT Long Range Wireless Two Channel Counter Transmitter - https://store.ncd.io/product/long-range-iot-wireless-two-channel-counter/

vs.

  1. IoT Long Range Wireless Production Counter Transmitter - https://store.ncd.io/product/iot-long-range-wireless-production-counter-transmitter/

We were able to hook up the 1st option (the 2 channel black sensor) to the Natural Gas Meter and Count Pulses. Hookup was straightforward, and everything worked right away.

However, we actually want to use the newer production counter (white box), but we tried multiple different wiring scenarios, and were not able to receive any pulses. We tried using Pins 1, 2, and 3 in all various configurations, and we had no luck. We have successully used the White production Counter on various Water Meters etc without issue (either using Pins 1 and 3 OR 2 and 3, depending on the hardware we are connecting to).

image

So ultimately our question is: why were we able to see a pulse using the older 2-channel counter, but not the newer white production counter? Or thinking is that the newer production counter is the sensor we want to use, since it has a sealed box, better connection cables, no jumpers, and more batteries/capacity, and generally easier to work with.

This is the gas meter in question:


The manufacturer says the following: the output of the meter is wired to a counter which supplies 3VDC to the digital contact.

Thank You Kindly! :slight_smile:

The primary distinction lies in the input type:

  1. The black box connects directly to the digital input.
  2. The white box utilizes an opto-coupler input.

A 3V input won’t suffice to activate the opto-coupler; approximately 5V is necessary (I will verify the precise voltage requirement).

It’s possible to build the white box so that its digital inputs are directly accessible, similar to the black box’s design.

Thanks Bhaskar! So seems for now we should continue using the black one in these cases, ya? Cheers!

I’ll inform our production team to create the product with flexible options. This way, users can easily choose how they want to use the white box products and even switch setups whenever needed, right out in the field

Awesome! This is why we love NCD!

For that white box sensor it would also be great to have an option to report pulses in EITHER the following:

  1. Only based on time interval (pulses every x min)
  2. Only based on pulse interval (report every x pulses)
  3. Or Both

Right now, it only allows one to use BOTH time and pulse interval, which sometimes can cause a rapid fire of readings if the time interval and pulse interval align within a few seconds.

In a perfect world, there would be an option to report every X pulses, OR every Y minutes, if there hasn’t been enough pulses reported in that time. For example, I want to be able to report every 10 counts. But I also want a report after 10 minutes of the LAST reading. This is a useful feature for water meters/gas meters, when there is no flow at night, but we still want to know that a sensor is reporting. Hope that makes sense. If not, I can explain more clearly!

The white box product already does that.
if you dont want the data every so often set the pulse thershold to a really high value

Hi @Bhaskar we ordered the 1 Channel Pulse Counter (Black version), and are currently deploying it. For some reason, the pulses are not being counted, and yet the 2 channel device we have, wired the same way, is seeing the pulses. The sensor is on, and we confirmed pulses with a push button.

2 CHANNEL WIRING WORKING:

1 CHANNEL WIRING NOT WORKING:

We would expect the 1 channel to work exaclty like the 2 channel.

Any idea on what could be the issue?

what’s the voltage across the CH1 and COM on single channel ?

We will test this and get back to you. Question for you: what voltage are we expecting?

And to be clear, are we testing the voltage of the pulses, or simply of the sensor between CH1 and COM ports?

just between com and ch1 . it should be 3.3V

Hi Bhaskar, we just tested both the 1 channel and 2 channel and both are showing 2.97 V across Channel 1/COM.

The voltage should be around 3.3V.
what’s the firmware version ?
can you share picture of the board?
image

what happens if you use reset and com instead com and ch1 as input terminals.

Hi @Bhaskar, we will provide images of the board tomorrow.

For now, here is the info for the 1-Channel Counter (we have two)


This is the 2-channel counter that is working:
image

We actually tried all permuations of COM/CH1/RESET on the one-channel counter, and none were reading the pulses.

Again, the 2-channel counter we had (black version) worked perfectly using Channel 1/COM, and it had a 2.97 V reading for Channel 1/COM when we tested it today.

Hi @Bhaskar any updates on this?

by looking at the screenshots the 1 channel are also counting the pulses ? am i missing something ?

You can disregard the Pulse Counts you see for the 1-channel, we were testing them with the buttons/switches prior to install, and those worked:

So we know the 1-Channel Pulse Counter is working with the push buttons. But it is not working with the gas meter, even though the voltage is the same (2.97) as the 2-channel, and the 2-channel is reading the pulses without issue.

Here are the board images:

so as you can see both are identical boards and only diff is firmware.
If its not working with meter it means the counter value is resetting. it can reset

  1. power cycle
  2. COM and reset are shorting
    Just to eliminate the 2nd option, connect reset to ground and test with meter
    image

Hi @Bhaskar, we completed the testing again:

  • When testing the voltage between CH1 and COM, BOTH the 1-channel and 2-channel sensors are showing 3.25 V (disregard the previous 2.97 V, not sure why it was showing this on our meter earlier). So this is good, it is what it should be.

  • We did what you said on the 1-channel meter, and connected the reset to the ground (as per you image), and then tested the voltage between CH1 and COM, and got a voltage of 0 (zero). Is this what you were hoping for?

We are back on site now, and have again confirmed that our 2-channel sensor is working well when connecting the pulse output from the natural gas meter to CH1/COM.

However, we wired in the 1-Channel sensors the same exact way, and are not reading any pulses. We know the 1-channel sensor should be working properly, because it reports the pulses from a button we are testing with.

So, we are left with the same issue, and have tried the following on the 1-channel sensor:

  • all 6 permutations of wiring (CH1/COM, COM/CH1, RST/COM, COM/RST, CH1/RST, RST/CH1) and it is not working.

We are out of ideas - what could be the issue here?!

Thanks Bhaskar

yes

The wiring should be CH2 and COM.
One chnnale and two chnale have identical hardware and 99% identical firmware. the CH1 acts as a reset. I can’t think of anything that will cause such an error.

One Channel has firmware 6 and two channel has 1?

Hi @Bhaskar to add further confusion, the blue board on the inside is labelled differently than the outside cover:

Regardless, we tried every possible combination with the wires on the 1-Channel counter (2 wires @ 3 possible connections [CH1, COM, CH2 on the board] = 6 possible wirings). Nothing has worked.

We tried both of the 1-channel sensors and they both behaved the same (no pulses from the gas meter). However, like I mentioned before, the 2-channel works.

We also tried with the pulse sensors wired into a 12V Power Supply.

At this point, not sure if we should:

  • Send the sensors back and order the 2-channel, which we know works
  • Perhaps consider flashing with a different firmware, given the hardware is similar?
  • Have a quick meeting this week to discuss our troubleshooting, and see if anything else comes up?

Thank You.